Curse

YellowMarker161 · Aug 02, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31

This still won't do much. Combined with QZ and other rangers using this skill, it will still be spammable. I suggest only allowing Nature's Renewal to remove a certain amount of hexes or enchantments.

There is a problem with Natures Renewal. A skill that literally makes around 150 other skills worthless, and is spammable, and isn't even elite is proof in itself that it is overpowerful. We are not nerfing rangers, we are not nerfing all spirits, we want 1 spirit to be toned down. A person who can't see that it is overpowered is just blind.

And to people saying, "Go find a counter," I'll say there are some counters. Want to here them?

1) Don't use builds with any enchantments. Obviously this is the best one. But what is the point of A.Net making 150 enchantments if they are useless. 1 spell is preventing us from using 1/3 of all the skills in the game.

or

2) Have some people watching and interrupting spirits. Your enemy can now not put down Natures Renewal. However, that means you need to dedicate an entire person to block rituals, leaving it 7 on 8.

There is no spell/skill/build to stop Natures Renewal. The harm is done as soon as it hits the floor, wiping every enchantment and hex from the board.

And that isn't even including that it can double casting times.

Quote:

holy crap ... for the amount of SS teams their are ... a team should have no trouble running up and taking the hall with the counter ... read the skills and build a counter yourself... they cant use hexes and enchants either ... so beat em at their game ... just read the skills ...

What skill? What build? What counters Natures Renewal? I read the skills, but I didn't see a single counter. And your right, they can't use hexes and enchants either, so they don't bring any. That means, to have an equal advantage, you can't bring any either.

Its a "you can't beat them, so join them" situation which takes all creativity out of the game by forcing you to use basic skills and spells with no enchantments or hexes.

BigTru · Aug 02, 2005, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by YellowMarker161

2) Have some people watching and interrupting spirits. Your enemy can now not put down Natures Renewal. However, that means you need to dedicate an entire person to block rituals, leaving it 7 on 8.

Um... How is that 7 on 8? If they have 1-2 people dedicated to laying the spirits and you have 1-2 people dedicated to interrupting them, how is that 7 on 8? Woulding it be 7 on 7 or 6 on 6?

The point is that Monks are very powerful if left alone. That is why you bring atleast 1 Mesmer dedicated to interrupting them. Mabey it's time to bring Rangers dedicated to interrupting Spirit Spammers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

Wow that NR penalize all my hex and enchancement

wow what should say the warrior?

Ward against melee , aegis, blind spell,dust trap , wirling defence , gladiator stance ,bonetti defence , guardian , distortion ,ecc ecc ecc ...

Welcome to the Warrior's world, Hexers/Enchanters. Tell me, just how dedicated to your profession are you?

Como Fort · Aug 02, 2005, 10:41 PM // 22:41

I also play a Warrior, and those kind of things are exactly why I just leave it for getting items now. No one cares so long as things are how they want them to be. Selfishness.

Interregnum · Aug 02, 2005, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

I also play a Warrior, and those kind of things are exactly why I just leave it for getting items now. No one cares so long as things are how they want them to be. Selfishness.

In stating that, you are claiming to be intolerant towards other people's ideas.
Therefore, you are insisting that your own idea be heard and is the absolute truth.
That, sir, is selfishness in it's own. And it would make you a hypocrite.

Como Fort · Aug 03, 2005, 12:28 AM // 00:28

I'm not saying my idea is the absolute truth at all. After all, where in that post does it say I'm right and everyone else is wrong? Exactly, it doesn't.

Also, I don't believe I am intolerant towards other peoples ideas. However, what I do believe I am is annoyed with everyones intolerance of Ranger teams and the spamming of Natures Renewal. As someone already said, find a counter.

Someone else also said just to bring 'basic skills and no enchantments'. There is no guarantee you will come up against a Ranger team. Also if you can't beat it then why do you deserve to win in the tombs? The point I am trying to make is that Ranger teams with spamming of Renewal are not expendable, we are at just a bigger disadvantage as you. If you Monks can't handle without enchantments then you shouldn't be so reliant and maybe it will teach you a lesson. Take some tips off of the Monks that play with us :P

Desecration Station · Aug 03, 2005, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Simply put, spirits shouldn't be spammable. It should be like every other spell or skill in this game where once you cast anew, then the old spirit disappears and the new spirit reappears where you had cast it.

I don't think it stops at Nature's Renewel. It's all spirits in general that need a little tweaking.

Interregnum · Aug 03, 2005, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

Yet another nerf aimed at ranger teams. You don't hear anyone ever complaining about ele spike teams or smiting teams, its always about the rangers. This has to be the 4th post now where I've been seeing a topic about nerfing Natures Renewal. Instead of continually making new posts about this, just post in the other hundreds of 'lets nerf these ranger faggots' threads. kthxbyeculater

How is this not enforcing your ideas upon others?
maybe you would post on a dying thread and add to the discussion, but this post actually provides a solution to this problem rather than just whining and such.

And people are entitled to their opinions and how they express them. If he wants to make a new thread, then don't tell him what you would do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

What people are missing here seems to be the fact that spirits are NOT invincible. Jesus get a Warrior with Balthazaars Aura to stand next to it and it will be dead in about 3 seconds. Stop trying to get it turned into an elite, because you KNOW its NOT gonna happen. How about next time you either target the Ranger who is laying it or the spirit itself? Stop crying about how it removes all your spells and start using some skill. These kind of topics are really beginning to annoy me now. Can we just please leave the already underated and eventually useless Rangers alone?

You seem insistant on people finding a counter to this rather than add to the discussion here about why or why not this skill should be made elite. In essence, you're posting in the wrong thread and contributing to the renewal of this thread, which seems to abhor you greatly.

A skill doesn't have to be infallible to be made an elite...there's a counter for everything. But a reasonable counter is what we're discussing. Look at every elite skill out there...you can find an easy counter for most of them. Does that mean they shouldn't be elite? No. It only means that their intended effect is stronger than most skills. Nature's renewal does it's damage as soon as it is cast, not in it's duration.

During beta, a lot of the skills that aren't elite were made elite because of their obvious power compared to other skills. I know hundred blades wasn't an elite in beta, and in earlier betas, healing hands wasn't elite either. But somewhere down the line, they've proved to be better skills than normal and achieved elite status. Now not everything can be tested and solved in betas, so if a skill shows how powerful it really is, it should be changed.

So therefore, the original topic is if nature's renewal should be made an elite. Unless you have something to add to this discussion other than repeating what earlier posters have said, then you shouldn't post here. Don't post on here just to slander about finding a counter or the number of these types of posts. If these topics annoy you like you stated, then just ignore them. It takes less effort than posting multiple responses in them.

And also organize your ideas into paragraphs. It's hard to read that clump of words.

Timoz · Aug 03, 2005, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarkii

The OP is hoping continuing the "Nerf NR" cry will finally fall into the dev's ears, and I dont blame him. Making it an elite is not a solution at all. Think of an 8-ranger team with Quickening Zephyr and Serpents Quickness. They can spam NR all day

Leave the "how" of balancing to the devs. They sure do know about the problem.

...This thread should have been left at that.

As should all the other threads about nerfing rangers, the amount of ranger teams has really decreased now, you've done what you intended to do, you've got rid of what you couldn't beat, leave it at that ey...

Leave it to the devs.

Kaospryx · Aug 03, 2005, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timoz

...This thread should have been left at that.

As should all the other threads about nerfing rangers, the amount of ranger teams has really decreased now, you've done what you intended to do, you've got rid of what you couldn't beat, leave it at that ey...

Leave it to the devs.

If we should leave it all to the devs, why does the Sardelac Sanitarium forum exist? Devs do pull ideas from the community, that's what we're here for. Why do you insist on repeating the same pointless arguements all the other negative posters here already stated? The ranger teams have NOT decreased, because nothing has been done to balance NR. If your narrow mind can't accept the fact that this thread has nothing to do with my personal skill at defeating rangers, maybe you should have left this thread after reading his post.

Rajamic · Aug 03, 2005, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyeo138

Winter does the same thing though, just cold damage and it's non-elite. So does elementalists conjure flame/frost/lightning.

No it doesn't. Winter turned Fire/Lightning/Earth damage into cold. How many spells get messed up by this? I think about 1 (Mark of Rodgort). And how much extra defense can this give? +15 if you have the right armor, and about half-off damage if you use the Mesmer Mantra of Frost.

Greater Conflagration turns all physical damage (all the swords, hammers, axes, and bows that don't have parts that chage their damage type) into fire damage. There are a load of skills that will never get triggered if everything is elemental. Also, This makes the bonus on Warrior armors meaningless, and the bonus on Ranger armor in play for all attacks that don't ignore armor.

The elem Conjures require the weapon to already be set to the particular element in order for it to be able to be applied.

I think the solution to the NR issue would be to leave it as is. Just make Oath Shot no longer refresh spirits.

Como Fort · Aug 03, 2005, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

And people are entitled to their opinions and how they express them. If he wants to make a new thread, then don't tell him what you would do.

I am just trying to save space on the forum for other threads. I'm not saying don't make new threads, it was merely a suggestion.

Quote:

You seem insistant on people finding a counter to this rather than add to the discussion here about why or why not this skill should be made elite. In essence, you're posting in the wrong thread and contributing to the renewal of this thread, which seems to abhor you greatly.

Well until something is done about it, or rather if anything is done about it, until then find a counter.

I don't think this should be made into an elite because it only affects certain groups, and even then only certain spells. Granted it affects the majority (Monks, Mesmers, Necromancers) but look at all the things the warriors have to deal with. Natures Renewal is simply a poweful spirit for an under powered proffession.
When you think about it, without spirits, Rangers lose near enough all of their power.

Natures Renewal also seems to be the only effective counter towards Smiting Teams. Is it really fair that a E/Mo smiter can bring in Balthazaars Aura or what have you AND an elite, whereas a Ranger will only be able to bring Natures Renewal as its elite. I think that is really unfair.

Quote:

And also organize your ideas into paragraphs. It's hard to read that clump of words.

Ok, done! ^^

Fatalis · Aug 03, 2005, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaospryx

I am proposing that Nature's Renewal be made an elite skill.

Signed.

Kaospryx · Aug 03, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

I don't think this should be made into an elite because it only affects certain groups, and even then only certain spells. Granted it affects the majority (Monks, Mesmers, Necromancers) but look at all the things the warriors have to deal with. Natures Renewal is simply a poweful spirit for an under powered proffession.

When you think about it, without spirits, Rangers lose near enough all of their power.

Certain groups? How about the whole map? You yourself mentioned half of the professions in Guild Wars. This is the single most powerful enchantment and hex remover in the whole game, including other elite skills. You are correct in stating that Nature's Renewal is powerful, in fact, that brings us back to my original post, it is powerful enough to be an elite. Rangers are not underpowered. If you continue to think that, then you are a pathetic ranger. No ranger should have to rely completely on one skill to be effective. No one of any class should.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

Natures Renewal also seems to be the only effective counter towards Smiting Teams. Is it really fair that a E/Mo smiter can bring in Balthazaars Aura or what have you AND an elite, whereas a Ranger will only be able to bring Natures Renewal as its elite. I think that is really unfair.

It is NOT the only effective counter. Smiting teams are very easy to counter without NR. To take some of what you yourself said, why don't YOU find a counter instead of griping that NR is the only solution to this? I'll even give you a hint: read in the builds directory or strategy section of this forum, there's millions of counters there.

Are you now suggesting Balthazar's Aura is unfair? Let me refer you to when you said to use it on a warrior against spirits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

What people are missing here seems to be the fact that spirits are NOT invincible. Jesus get a Warrior with Balthazaars Aura to stand next to it and it will be dead in about 3 seconds.

First of all, not only is this idea highly unviable, given the fact that a warrior has low energy and should not be smiting at all, have you stopped to consider how much health a spirit has, if fertile season is implemented? Second of all, the trouble is not with the existance of the spirits, since NR does the most harm when it's cast. In addition, a spirit SPAM team would cast multiple NR's, the next which would remove your balthazars. I bet you use an elite skill when you smite with your warrior, I bet that's very unfair.

All of you negative posters saying how "nerfing" NR is a cheap way for us to bypass the fact that we cannot deal with SS spam teams. Since your narrow-mindedness has apparantely blinded you from the point I was originally getting at, let me clarify it for you. Turning NR into an elite skill will balance the game. Will it eliminate SS teams? No. Will it eliminate ranger teams? No. Will NR still be used? Yes. The most powerful effect still exists, it still removes all enchantments and hexes. In fact, I even suggested it be improved if it's to be made elite, by decreasing the cast time. The entire reasoning behind this is that NR IS powerful to be made an elite skill, so it should be.

The argument made against this is that NR can be countered, so it shouldn't be elite. So are you saying elites can't be countered? Let me break your precious bubble of insecurity: Other elites can be countered too.

Others here suggest that I am a ranger basher, as well as all the others that wish to balance the game. Here's news for you, in case you missed my post on the first page. I play a ranger too. In fact, it's my first character, and the character I have advanced in this game the most.

I don't want to bash anyone here, but if those said people could learn to read, maybe they'd find out that I, as well as others that have posted on this thread, have addressed what has been said. If they could open their eyes a little, they could also see that my suggestion does not invalidate SS teams, it balances them.

Fatalis · Aug 03, 2005, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by YellowMarker161

What skill? What build? What counters Natures Renewal? I read the skills, but I didn't see a single counter..

Obviously he meant the Unnatural Signet.

Thomasuwoo · Aug 05, 2005, 06:01 AM // 06:01

You guys do know that to use oath shot the ranger has to HIT with his shot. If he misses he can't do a damn thing for 10 secconds, Block the arrow, blind him, distrupt him, signet of humidity!
Power block the spirts! Diversion the oath shot there are so many things you can do but you all wanna stay with ur precious spike groups. Their flavour of the month time is over and done with. Move on.

Timoz · Aug 05, 2005, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

You guys do know that to use oath shot the ranger has to HIT with his shot. If he misses he can't do a damn thing for 10 secconds, Block the arrow, blind him, distrupt him, signet of humidity!
Power block the spirts! Diversion the oath shot there are so many things you can do but you all wanna stay with ur precious spike groups. Their flavour of the month time is over and done with. Move on.

You beat me to it.

I've played renewal spammer many a time with oath shot, we've lost vs smiting teams after they target me with blind etc. take down renewal and quickly disable the monks before they can remove conditions from me.
Ok i've not tried to counter renewal yet playing in a smiting team, maybe some of you smiter's could tell me, using blind, interrupt, destroying spirits.. does this form an effective counter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaospryx

Certain groups? How about the whole map? You yourself mentioned half of the professions in Guild Wars. This is the single most powerful enchantment and hex remover in the whole game, including other elite skills. You are correct in stating that Nature's Renewal is powerful, in fact, that brings us back to my original post, it is powerful enough to be an elite. Rangers are not underpowered. If you continue to think that, then you are a pathetic ranger. No ranger should have to rely completely on one skill to be effective. No one of any class should.

It is NOT the only effective counter. Smiting teams are very easy to counter without NR. To take some of what you yourself said, why don't YOU find a counter instead of griping that NR is the only solution to this? I'll even give you a hint: read in the builds directory or strategy section of this forum, there's millions of counters there.

Are you now suggesting Balthazar's Aura is unfair? Let me refer you to when you said to use it on a warrior against spirits.

First of all, not only is this idea highly unviable, given the fact that a warrior has low energy and should not be smiting at all, have you stopped to consider how much health a spirit has, if fertile season is implemented? Second of all, the trouble is not with the existance of the spirits, since NR does the most harm when it's cast. In addition, a spirit SPAM team would cast multiple NR's, the next which would remove your balthazars. I bet you use an elite skill when you smite with your warrior, I bet that's very unfair.

All of you negative posters saying how "nerfing" NR is a cheap way for us to bypass the fact that we cannot deal with SS spam teams. Since your narrow-mindedness has apparantely blinded you from the point I was originally getting at, let me clarify it for you. Turning NR into an elite skill will balance the game. Will it eliminate SS teams? No. Will it eliminate ranger teams? No. Will NR still be used? Yes. The most powerful effect still exists, it still removes all enchantments and hexes. In fact, I even suggested it be improved if it's to be made elite, by decreasing the cast time. The entire reasoning behind this is that NR IS powerful to be made an elite skill, so it should be.

The argument made against this is that NR can be countered, so it shouldn't be elite. So are you saying elites can't be countered? Let me break your precious bubble of insecurity: Other elites can be countered too.

Others here suggest that I am a ranger basher, as well as all the others that wish to balance the game. Here's news for you, in case you missed my post on the first page. I play a ranger too. In fact, it's my first character, and the character I have advanced in this game the most.

I don't want to bash anyone here, but if those said people could learn to read, maybe they'd find out that I, as well as others that have posted on this thread, have addressed what has been said. If they could open their eyes a little, they could also see that my suggestion does not invalidate SS teams, it balances them.

I think you need to calm down instead of insulting people who post what you don't want to hear on your thread, no need for that now. Simple suggestions without insulting and sarcasm go a long way, you want people to take you seriously, be serious, don't act like a **** on your own threads and insult people.

You don't know how Como plays, you've never seen him play, you call him a pathetic ranger? You won't get very far with that attitude.

emil knight · Aug 05, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

Making NR elite doesn't make it less spammable.

Actually it would because you seem to be forgetting the combo it goes with... it goes with Oath Shot (Elite) which recharges all skills instantly. Normally NR has a 60 second cool down. If NR was an elite then the two skills couldn't be used together, making the Ranger wait the entire minute to recast.

Of course people forget with 8 Rangers on a team all casting this a few seconds apart, they could still keep at least one NR out at all times.

Personally I'd rather see people create a build to counter this than see it get nerfed... just because it causes a problem for you in PvP doesn't mean it should be changed.

Desecration Station · Aug 05, 2005, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quickening Zephyr with Serpents Quickness could recharge it mighty fast.